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Minutes of the 2008 Magnolia Point Golf and Country Club January 16, 2008
The Annual Meeting of Team Representatives began promptly at 10 a.m. Roy Gulick, Scheduling Chairman and Meeting Facilitator, welcomed everyone and introduced the meeting attendees. Appendix A lists the attendees. Proceedings 1. Report from the Tournament and Handicap Chairman The 2007 Season. We congratulate Jacksonville Golf and Country Club for winning the John Brady Cup for the 2007 season. And we also congratulate Orange Park for its strong showing all year, finishing the season just two Stableford points behind the winner. I note that two newer teams, Marsh Landing and Sawgrass performed very well, both placing in the money during the season. You all know that Palencia withdrew from the Senior Interclub, citing reasons of declining interest and the inability to field a team consistently. Rules infractions and speed of play were still problem areas. I ask that everyone point our rules infractions as they occur. Recognize that your Chairmen, Roy and I, are not Rules Officials, nor do we want to be, and that to protect the field all players must act to correct rules infractions. Speed of play will remain a problem. Losing one Club will help, but it’s a problem that we all must work on all the time. Scoring. Scoring improved and is continuing to improve. Computerized scoring has been a success. Our computer operators continue to gain experience. The best thing about computer scoring is that there were no disqualifications last season. We’re now using two computers for entering scorecard information and one additional computer to total the team scores for the current match and for the season to date. I would like to find a way to project the scoring results on a wall, but this may not be feasible. We’re working on it. For the scoring system, I need a current scorecard from each Member Club. (Action: He asked the Team Reps to provide him a scorecard.) Web Site. Our Web site is working well. We pay $76 per year to the host. There have been a few problems with the Web site requesting a user name and password before accepting a roster submittal. Contact me if that occurs. Our site has brought in $130 from Google searches and ads. We also received $76 from First City Companies ads. Those ads pay for the annual fee. Please encourage your players to use our site; click on the ads and do a Google search or two. Bank Account. Citibank gave us $50 for setting up a bank account. Currently there is $250 in the account. Fees. We just added $5 to our monthly tournament charge to players. It’s now $50. The host club gets $48. One dollar goes to me for my handicapping work, and the other dollar goes into our bank account. Those extra dollars will accumulate during the new season for year-end prizes or whatever else you decide here today. That’s a discussion topic for later. No-Shows. No-shows remain a problem. Two Clubs have charged us for those: Marsh Landing and Jacksonville G&CC. It’s really a Team Reps problem: you will have to pay for no-shows and your no-shows will have to pay you. There was a suggestion from the floor that our agreements with the Clubs should permit one-to-three no-shows at no additional cost. We can try that, but ultimately it’s up to the Club, not us, to agree to that. Best thing is to talk it over with your players and prevent the problem where possible. E-Mail. Please use E-mail for communications. It’s so much easier than trying to communicate by other means. Check Lists. I produced a new checklist for the host Pro’s use in preparing for our match. Team Reps need to talk to their Pros and together review the checklist before each match. We have had issues that could have been avoided if a checklist was followed.
2. Report from the Scheduling Chairman Scheduling. Many thanks to all Team Reps for assisting me with the scheduling of your home match. The procedure has worked extremely well. Calendar Year. We’re now starting our 11th season, and from now on our seasons are scheduled on a calendar-year basis, beginning in January and ending with the Brady Cup match in December. 2008 Schedule. The 2008 Season schedule is fixed and available on our Web site. Here it is (passed out handout). Please note that the date of the Ponte Vedra match has changed from May 12 to May 19. 2009 Planning Schedule. Here’s the 2009 planning schedule (passed it out). A Team Rep asked him how he determined the order of rotation. The rotation has been the same for three years, with a twitch here and there because of course unavailability. All Member Clubs are cycled in order, each Club in turn plus the Brady Cup. That means only 11 of our 15 Clubs will serve as host each year. With Palencia gone, we’re on a 16-month cycle. Scheduling Procedure. As most of you know, I arrange the date with the Team Rep, and when it’s set I produce a formal written Memorandum of Agreement which the Team Rep, the host Pro, Barney, and I sign. Team Reps should let me know well in advance of possible scheduling conflicts. (The Marsh Creek Rep announced he may have to change his Club’s scheduled date due to over seeding.)
3. Discussion (Appendix B is a compilation of Action Item from the following discussions.) 1. Monthly Prizes from Member Clubs (Barney Poston) I request prizes from you twice during the season: once when your Club hosts the match, and once for the Brady Cup match. We continue to seek such prizes, and would like to increase them. Typically the host Club provides one such prize, and other Clubs often contribute as well. For example, Magnolia Point has provided a round of four with carts for every match during the past two years, and will continue this year. Osprey Cove donated a prize at every match last year. Hidden Hills donated many proximity prizes. I ask everyone to make a conscious effort to ask your Pro to provide a prize for at least your home match and for the Brady Cup match. Action: For their home match, the Team Rep should ask for, at the very minimum, a round of golf for four without carts. 2. Fees for 2009 Season (Roy Gulick) For the last two years we’ve kept the fee at $45. Of that, $44 went to the Club, including $8 in merchandise prizes. Last year we agreed to raise our fee for 2008 to $50, of which $48 goes to the club, including $8 in prizes. The question at hand is our 2009 season, which I’m now scheduling and producing written agreements. Should we increase the fee for 2009? There was a comment that food and beverage could become an issue due to increasing costs. After discussion, the Team Reps agreed that we should let the Clubs tell us when an increased fee is warranted. They voted unanimously to keep the fee at $50 for 2009. Action: No change in the fee for 2009. 3. The Double Points System for the Brady Cup Match (Gary Hill) The proposition is that doubling the points for the final match isn’t fair. That engendered lots of discussion, pro and con. Arguments PRO included: no other sport does this; a team’s performance over eleven months should count as much as or more than the Brady Cup final round. Arguments CON included: doubling points makes the Brady Cup Match more important, more competitive, and more challenging; it draws people to the final match. The Team Reps proposed alternatives that included (1) keeping the points system as it is; (2) doing away with the Brady Cup altogether; (3) have the Brady Cup stand alone as a separate match as it did initially; (4) having two champion teams: a seasonal champ and a Brady Cup champ; (5) doing away with the double points and counting the Brady Cup Match the same as the other eleven matches; and (6) letting only the top four teams entering the final match compete for the Brady Cup. After much discussion, the Team Reps voted 11-4 for no change. Action: No change in our point system for the Brady Cup competition. 4. Award a Cash Prize at the End of the Season for the Top Three Teams (Glenn Dobrick) Discussion was deferred until the Pot of Gold topic that follows. 5. Possible Interclub Yearly Champion and Brady Cup Winner (Gary Hill) This subject was included and discussed under Topic 2 above. 6. Our Pot of Gold/Cash! How should we spend it? (Barney Poston) With our increased fee we will accumulate some cash during the year. The question is how to spend it. Suggestions included: buy door prizes for the Brady Cup (such as one grand prize, say an overnight for two at the King and Bear); buy two or three quality door prizes; buy a computer projector to show scores as they accumulate; more proximity prizes; cash prizes for the top teams; give 20% to charity like JAGA does; keep some money in the till, buy a trophy for the second place team; offer $100 for a hole-in-one. After discussion of the alternatives and after two preliminary votes, the Team Reps decided unanimously on the following: Action: Keep about $400 in the till and use the rest to buy door prizes for the Brady Cup Match and a rotating second place trophy for display by the team. 7. Our Handicap System; Should it be Changed? (Roy Gulick) The USGA Handicap System permits a golfer to have only one handicap index. We have two. We initiated our own system with good reason. But now that with the Internet we can easily verify every golfer’s USGA index, the question is whether we should use the USGA handicap indexes rather than maintain our current handicap system. Discussion moved afield and included: having the host team use their USGA index due to home team advantage, and leaving our handicap system alone. The Team Reps voted for no change. Action: No change to our handicap system. 8. Palencia Vacancy Leaves us with 15 teams. Action? (Barney Poston) There’s been no real progress on finding another team. Fernandina Beach has just asked to join us, as have others in the past. Candidate clubs Deerwood, Plantation, and Timuquana were discussed, as well as Cimmarone and South Hampton. A motion was made to NOT increase the number of Member Clubs. This was agreed to unanimously. Action: Keep the number of Member Clubs at 15. 9. Marsh Creek's Many Marshes and Our Many Golfers Who Hit Provisional Balls Over Them (Barney Poston) The problem is that the USGA Rules of Golf don’t permit hitting a provisional ball over a water hazard, and Marsh Creek has 14 forced carries over marshes and creeks. Nevertheless, we can expect many of our players to hit a provisional ball over those marshes. Marsh Creek should either give us a local rule to allow provisional balls or else install circled "drop areas" just for MSIS use. There was lots of discussion about this situation, branching beyond Marsh Creek to our other Clubs. It was noted that the USGA has a specimen local rule that can be used to speed play. The local rule permits hitting a provisional ball over a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard). There was a motion that we adopt the USGA’s specimen local rule for our matches. The Team Reps approved it unanimously. Action: Adopt as our local rule the 2008 USGA specimen local rule for provisional balls over water hazards (including lateral water hazards). 10. Length of Courses. Deerwood was 5,720 yards. Closest to 6,000? (Gary Hill) The choice of the Green Tees at 5,720 yards was questioned as being too short. As Tournament Chairman, Barney Poston responded by saying that he selects the rated tees that are closest to 6,000 yards, and that’s what he did at Deerwood, where it was near a toss-up between the Green and White Tees. After discussion, the Team Reps requested that he select tees of a minimum distance of 6,000 yards. The host Club can add or subtract yardage within the USGA maximum tolerances. Action: Play each course at 6,000 yards or more. 11. Maintenance of the MSIS E-mail List and the Active Players List (Barney Poston) We now have 191 names on our current e-mail list and 604 on our list of active players. Each Team Rep was given the lists for his own team, and asked to submit changes to Barney. Action: Team Reps should examine their e-mail list and their active players list and let Barney know of changes. 12. Should the Home Team Sit Out the Match? (Barney Poston) The Team Reps quickly agreed to leave it like it is, that every team gets its turn. Action: No change . . . the Home Team plays. 13. Pick Up ... or Putt Out? ESC score? Inequity? (Jock Ochiltree) Barney cited the current procedure that you should keep playing until (1) you have no chance for a point and (2) no impact on your ESC score. All Team Reps need to reinforce this point with their team; correct handicaps depend on it. Also, they should remind their players that MSIS scores must be posted as Tournament Scores. In reporting, Players should adjust the match score to their USGA handicap ESC limit, rather than their MSIS handicap ESC limit. (For example, your MSIS handicap of 21 lets you post an ‘8’, but your USGA handicap of 19 does not.) Action: Team Reps reinforce the pick-up procedure with their players. Action: Team Reps reinforce the reporting of Tournament Scores with their players. 14. Policy on Rescheduling Matches, e.g., Slammer and Squire Match (Barney Poston) Barney asked for the authority to reschedule a match due to adverse conditions, such as we experienced at the Slammer and Squire last year. This was so moved, seconded, and approved unanimously. He was then asked to let Team Reps know of rescheduling and subsequent dates sufficiently in advance to let teams react. Action: The Tournament Chairman has the authority to reschedule matches when warranted. 15. No-show Scoring This topic surfaced during the previous discussion on rescheduling. No-shows are now awarded the same number of Stableford point as the lowest number of points scored in the match (that is, if the lowest score is 21, then that’s what the no-show scored as well). Discussions of fairness ensued. After a brief discussion of alternatives, the Team Reps voted to retain this procedure. Action: No change in the scoring procedure for a no-show. 16. MSIS Rules — Revisions? (Roy Gulick) Team Reps were given a copy of the current MSIS rules and were asked to look them over at leisure and let Roy know of any needed corrections, other than those changes made necessary from this meeting. Action. Team Reps should let Roy know of any needed corrections to rules, other than the changes necessary from this meeting. 17. Succession Planning for our Two Chairmen. (Barney Poston, Roy Gulick) A brief discussion ensued. No action is currently required. Appendix A – List of Attendees Chairmen 1. Tournament and Handicap Chairman Barney Poston 2. Scheduling Chairman Roy Gulick Team Representatives and Guests 1. Deercreek Judd Schwartz 2. Eagle Harbor Greg Howard (Surrogate Rep for Gary Owensby) 3. Hidden Hills Carl Arnold 4. Jacksonville G&CC Ray Fox Skip Lunsford (Guest) 5. Magnolia Point Joe Thill (Surrogate Rep for Roy Gulick) John Brown (Guest) 6. Marsh Creek Dave Spring 7. Marsh Landing John Arnold 8. Orange Park Gary Hill 9. Osprey Cove Tony De Marco Tom Headlee (Guest) 10. Ponte Vedra Jim Bryce 11. Queen's Harbour Jim Brady 12. St. Johns Bob White Charlie Jenks (Guest) 13. San Jose Evans Sumner 14. Sawgrass Glenn Dobrick 15. World Golf Village Jock Ochiltree
Appendix B – Compilation of Actions 1. Scorecards. Team Reps should provide Barney a current scorecard. 2. Prizes. For their home matches, the Team Rep should ask for, at the very least, a round of golf for four without carts. 3. Fees. No change in fees for 2009. 4. Points for Brady Cup Match. No change in our point system for the Brady Cup. 5. Pot of Gold. Keep about $400 in the till and use the rest to buy door prizes for the Brady Cup Match and purchase a rotating second place trophy for display by the team. 6. Handicap System. No change to our handicap system. 7. Number of Member Clubs. Keep the number of Member Clubs at 15. 8. Provisional Ball, Water Hazards. Adopt as our local rule the 2008 USGA specimen local rule for provisional balls over water hazards (including lateral water hazards). 9. Course Length. Play each course at 6,000 yards or more. 10. E-Mail and Active Player Lists. Team Reps should examine their e-mail list and their active players lists and let Barney know of changes. 11. Should Host Team Play? No change . . . the Host Team plays. 12. Pick-ups. Team Reps reinforce the pick-up procedure with their players. 13. Tournament Scores. Team Reps reinforce the posting of Tournament Scores. 14. Rescheduling Matches. The Tournament Chairman has the authority to reschedule matches when warranted. 15. No-show Scoring. No change in the no-show scoring procedure. 16. Rules. Team Reps should let Roy know of any needed corrections, other than the changes necessary from this meeting. |